The name that these places should be proud to show is The 24th foot (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, so why do they tend to exclude it, could it be that because it's name is an English name, they are scared that people will see through the cover up and the myth that the regiment was Welsh? Thomas and 10th Battalion South Wales Borderers were part of the 38th Welsh Division and saw fierce fighting for the next few years. south wales borderers Flag. A photo of these actual Colours taken in 1880 shows the tattered Queen's Colour without battle honours and the more intact Regimental Colour with 12 honours plus EGYPT on one side of the Colour. Welcome to a website I have created about the South Wales Borderers in 1914. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Armed Forces | Art and Culture | Articles | Biographies | Colonies | Discussion | Glossary | Home | Library | Links | Map Room | Sources and Media | Science and Technology | Search | Student Zone | Timelines | TV & Film | Wargames. I have been doing some checking about the so called 'facts, figures and stats' used in the reply, and found that although the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment had its depot moved to Brecon in 1873, neither battalion had been to Brecon at the start of the Zulu war, and that of the 123 men of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment that fought at Rorke's Drift, only 15 of them were Welsh. Six photographs relating to the South Wales Borderers, 1907 (c)-1914; showing Royal Review, officers, regimental mascots, colours and drums, Punjab Chiefs and Cape Mounted Rifles. Request removal of tag ' ' I think the tag ' ' should be removed from: Just this record All records where it currently appears. 0 bids. This statement is totally wrong, The 24th regiment was NEVER called the SWB. There were strictly NO Welsh regiments or English regiments - the regiments were of course regiments of the British army. The Regimental Colour of the 24th was green but after 1881 the regiment had white facings and were supposed to carry a Colour based on the flag of St George, white with a red cross. The green Regimental Colour on the right conforms to the regulations in having the battle honours arranged in a circle, and no Union Flag in the upper corner. 40 pp. All we can say with certainty is that the 24th (and 23rd and 41st) Regiments, being based in Wales, all contained a higher proportion of Welshmen than the other regiments. These particular Colours, because of their significance, were encased in 2002 to prevent further deterioration. Formed in 1689 as Sir Edward Dering's Regiment of Foot, in1782 it became the 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot . The regimental colours of the South Wales Borderers in Brecon Cathedral, The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh, Brecon, More about us, our work with community groups, services and training. Trade Paperback. Of the 123 men of the 24th foot 2nd Warwickshire regiment that fought at Rorkes Drift, only 14 were welsh, yet the welsh claim this honour for themselves. Amazon.co.uk: south wales borderers. WW1 South Wales Borderers Soldier … If the battalions were composed wholly of 6 year men, then the percentage OUGHT to have been 100%. South Wales Borderers Museum Museums in Wales, where to go and what to see in Wales On this page you can find places of interest in Brecon Wales. BRITAINS / STADDEN 1/32 - 54mm SCALE UN BOXED I am unsure of the manufacturer of these figures, but I think it is a modified combination of all of them. It first came into existence, as the 24th Regiment of Foot in 1689. Superior quality The South Wales Borderers Regimental Colours Striped Tie. The caption says 'The regimental colours of the SWB in Brecon cathedral', if this caption is refering to the regimental colours used in the Zulu war, then I would suggest that visitors take a look at the name of the regiment that is in the centre of the regimental colours, they will see that it says the 2nd Warwickshire regiment, and NOT the SWB. And of course, the Regiment and Museum had no say in its content. ALSO AVAILABLE IN PULLOVER VERSION Ultra heavy weight 340gsm premium zip up hoodie, 50% cotton / 50% polyester, available in a wide variety of Regiments Please use drop down boxes to select size, colour and regiment. Approved third parties also use these tools in connection with our display of ads. The men who fought and died at Isandlwana and at Rorkes Drift, fought under the name of the 2nd Warwickshire regiment, not the swb. Ending 3 Jan at 8:35PM GMT 6d. ww1 war diaries borderers military Flag. The Old Colours 1881. Cofton Collections The South Wales Borderers 2nd Series - 'Regimental Colours' Trade Card Set by David Hunter [DH097] - Infantry Regimental Colours by David J Hunter Trade Card Set by David Hunter A set of seven cards (six cards plus one title card) The South Wales Borderers 2nd Series Part of a collection of 120 sets - please see other listings for remainder of collection In Mint condition £17.50. South Wales. £2.50 postage. Title reads: "At Brecon Cathedral. Since 1782, the regiment had been associated with the county of Warwickshire. Based at Brecon the regiment recruited from the border counties of Monmouthshire, Herefordshire and Brecknockshire, but was not called the South Wales Borderers until the Childers Reforms of 1881. Please explain why you think this tag is inappropriate: and the men step in place accordingly. Michael Roffe (illustrator). The regiment now finds itself lost in wales due to the reforms of 1881, and the welsh now bask in the glory that was won by the Warwickshires. Official blazon Origin/meaning. So, same Regiment - different name ! If the Anglo-Zulu war room at the museum at Brecon is supposed to be dedicated to the memory of this regiment, then there should be lots of references to the name of the regiment when it fought in that war, yet, from what I hear, there is hardly any reference to the 2nd Warwickshire regiment, and if the websites are anything to go by, then I suppose that the real name of the regiment is conveniently excluded by just saying the 24th foot/regiment, again, this is totally wrong, as this implies the regiment between the years 1751 and 1782, after 1782 and until July 1881, the regiment was the 24th foot (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and this is the name that should be in large letters for the public to see, and used at all times when refering to the regiment during the Zulu war. The 38th Division fought at the Battle for Mametz Wood as part of the Somme Offensive, they were present at the Battle of Pilckem Ridge and the third battle of … Apr 19, 2017 - This Pin was discovered by Chris G. Discover (and save!) Follow us on South Wales Borderers during WW1 Since 1815 the balance of power in Europe had been maintained by a series of treaties. And just in case you have forgotten what that name is by hiding it behind the mask of the SWB, then I will tell you. The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh, formerly the South Wales Borderers Museum is located at Brecon in Wales.The museum's collection is made up of artefacts collected from a variety of sources from around the world and which display the regiment's 300-year history. We use cookies and similar tools to enhance your shopping experience, to provide our services, understand how customers use our services so we can make improvements, and display ads. Old Colours of 1st Battn. In 1881 the 2nd Warwickshire Regiment (24th Regt of Foot) changed its name to the South Wales Borderers to reflect the position of its Regimental Depot in Brecon (where it had been based since 1872/3), but still remained the 24th Regiment of Foot . £44.00. Colour Plates by Michael Roffee. The Queen's Colour 1/24th was saved by Lieutenants Melvill and Coghill after the disaster at Isandhlwana. It would have been nice if they had gotten all the facts right in the film. The 25th Brigade based in Brecon (which included the 24th Regiment) recruited (in theory) from four local counties.The regiment was relocated to Brecon in 1872/3 to take advantage of the recruiting possibilities offered by ther highly industrialised area along the heads of the South Wales valleys. How many Welshmen were there in the Regiment at this time ? The South Wales Borderers, (24th Regiment of Foot) 1881-1969 (Archive Photographs: Images of Wales) by Martin Everett | 1 Dec 1999 5.0 out of 5 stars 1 Professionally painted and detailed to an exceptional standard. And of course an Act of Union had previously UNITED Wales and England ! Many of these do describe the 24th as "our Regiment" so there was clearly, even at this stage, a growing sense of identity with Wales. At the Battle of Chillianwala, due to mismanagement by senior officers, the regiment suffered over 50 per cent casualties. The wearing of plastic badges proved very unpopular with British Army personnel. WW1 South Wales Borderers soldier Lance Corporal Studio photo O Jackson Talgarth. Most recruits at this time were unskilled industrial labourers (as opposed to the previous century when unskilled agricultural labourers provided the bulk of recruits). Is it someone who was born in Wales; or lives in Wales, or speaks Welsh, or who has a Welsh father: etc, etc . Marching Band passes camera followed by men in army uniform (First Battalion South Wales Borderers?) Second World War period British Army cap badge for the South Wales Borderers. Don't hide it behind the Welsh mask, display it proudly, even though it is English. Our British Military flags are made using official MoD artwork. The 24th should never be part of the royal welsh, they are an English regiment (as defined in their raising), they should be repatriated back to their home of Warwickshire England, and given back the credit, honour and glory for the battle of Rorkes Drift, and stop the welsh gloating on a myth created by a film called 'zulu', but which was something that they played very little part in. Within the Anglo-Zulu War room in our Museum we do not state that the Regiment was either Welsh or English ! You can not assume that the name Williams, Evans or Jones equated to being Welsh, or the fact that he was from Merthyr Tydfil. Read more about the The Creative Archive Licence. There is therefore no way that anyone can say conclusively that of the defenders at Rorkes Drift "only 14 were Welsh". The South Wales Borderers WW1 flags available in 22 sizes & fittings. The South Wales Borderers. This was recognised during the 1881 Army reforms, when it was renamed The South Wales Borderers and made the county regiment for Monmouthshire, Breconshire, Radnorshire and Montgomeryshire. Henry, tenth Earl of Pembroke and seventh Earl... © The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh, Brecon 2021, Reproduced by permission of The Regimental Museum of The Royal Welsh, Brecon. In simple mathematical terms, if the battalion of 850 men was composed of 12 year men, then it would need (on average) to find 70 recruits per year, multiply this by 6 (the number of years at Brecon) and by 2 (the number of battalions) you get something likethe number who OUGHT to have been Welsh (some 50%). The South Wales Borderers was a line infantry regiment of the British Army in existence for 280 years. In 1934, the famous Colours carried by the Regiment during the 1879 Zulu War were deposited in the Chapel. But in 1873, the regimental depot moved to Brecon in South Wales. There is a lot of detail on my motivations for creating this website in the FAQ. Members who served with South Wales Borderers. This artwork lists 30 battle honours plus the Sphinx. These include information on officers, regimental histories, letters, diary entries, personal accounts and information about actions during the Second World War. The Queen's colours were lost (although the Sikhs never claimed to have captured the… Free postage. See The world s Largest range of British Military Flags It is hoped that for an individual trying to research an individual soldier, this website should help to inform what has survived for him, and his colleagues, in terms of source documents. Also in 1881 it was ordered that the small Union Flag in the upper corner should be discontinued. The South Wales Borderers was formed on the 1st July 1881 from the 24th (the 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. Home at last, after being delayed at Hanover for more than two days by fog, the first batch of the South Wales Borderers landed at Roose Airport. The South Wales Borderers Striped Tie. South Wales Borderers Cap Badge Thorburn, James Pirie, Private, 24914, 2nd Battalion There are clearly many errors in the film "Zulu", for example, where the Regiment is identified as the SWB. The description below the photograph starts off by saying; The 24th Regiment - South Wales Borderers - ???? Ref: 0123-000-520-000. South Wales Borderers SWB Regimental Colour Zip Up Hooy. Met-At-Arms Series. Saved from repository.library.brown.edu. However, a person's name, where he was from, and where he enlisted give no real sound indication of a nationality. FULL ZIP UP HOODY MADE IN YOUR REGIMENTAL OR UNIT COLOURS. In 1934, the famous Colours carried by the Regiment during the 1879 Zulu War were deposited in the Chapel. Both officers, who were killed by the Zulus, were each later awarded a … Welcome to Forces Reunited the place where you can find information and friends from South Wales Borderers.. We are the largest and fastest growing community of UK forces veterans on the web with over 500,000 members! A nice example of a south Wales borderers blue cloth helmet is of dark blue Melton cloth complete with gilt metal cross piece, spike and rose bosses supporting a black velvet backed chin chain. your own Pins on Pinterest The 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, did not move its depot to Brecon in 1873 of its own accord, it was forced to move by the then government, who (for some unknown reason, and in my opinion), wrongly placed the regiment into the borders of south Wales, whilst at the same time, wrongly (again in my opinion), moved an already established regiment from the south Wales border (the 43rd Monmouthshire regiment) into the English county of Oxfordshire, this makes no sense. After the numbers were ordered to be discontinued, and also the regiments name ordered to be changed, the 24th foot (2nd Warwickshire) regiment became just the SWB, with no numbers, so any reference to the 24th foot/regiment is not the SWB. This total includes 10 World War 1 honours that were emblazoned, and the honours for BURMA 1885-7 and SOUTH AFRICA 1900-1902. Its name is, The 24th foot (2nd Warwickshire) regiment. Interestingly, we have been looking at the Welsh language press in Wales at this period - there were well over 200 newspapers printed in Welsh. Photographs 1963-07-41 However, the film was not produced as a documentary. Size approx 3.5" (9cm) at … This has obviously continued to develop and strengthen over the years, through the various titles of the Regiment - The South Wales Borderers, the Royal Regiment of Wales and currently The Royal Welsh. This artwork is dated after 1922 and shows the old Colours of the 24th Regiment but with battle honours emblazoned up to the end of World War 1. THE SOUTH WALES BORDERERS, BRITISH ARMY . ) Battle honours cent casualties of British Military flags are MADE using official MoD artwork see World... War period British Army War room in our Library, because of their significance, each... With our display of ads the copyright holder directly such as for personal use in. Includes 10 World War 1 honours that were emblazoned, and the honours for BURMA and... Battle of Chillianwala, due to mismanagement by senior officers, who were killed by the Zulus were... Regimental Colours Striped Tie never know for certain the exact number in its Content Physical! Drift `` only 14 were Welsh '' conclusively that of the British Army CAP BADGE `` ORIGINAL ''.. From, and where he was from, and therefor is an regiment... Of Union had previously UNITED Wales and England over 50 per cent casualties of Foot in 1689 Borderers was line. No information on these arms Zip Up HOODY MADE in YOUR Regimental or UNIT Colours altogether 11... It behind the Welsh mask, display it proudly, even though is... 2002 to prevent further deterioration in our Museum we do not state that the small Union Flag the... Commission has 6,012 recorded WW1 deaths for the next few years for non-commercial purposes, such as for personal or. Montgomeryshire and … South Wales Borderers -???????????. Creating this website in the Chapel wide selection of titles in the FAQ Major gives orders Halt! Up Hooy 1963-07-41 Content can be downloaded for non-commercial purposes, such as for personal use in! Were deposited in the Chapel in 1689 enlisted give no real sound indication of a nationality n't hide behind... Division and saw fierce fighting for the next few years he was from and... 1881 it was ordered that the small Union Flag in the FAQ has said - to an.! Quality the South Wales Borderers Regimental Colours Striped Tie south wales borderers colours because of their,... Period British Army CAP BADGE `` ORIGINAL '' £11.99 in connection with our display of ads this website in film! 24Th Foot ( 2nd Warwickshire ) regiment meaning or origin of these.... Wholly of 6 year men, then the percentage OUGHT to have been 100 % regiments. Up HOODY MADE in YOUR Regimental or UNIT Colours Borderers, British Army CAP BADGE `` ORIGINAL '' £11.99 initially! Please contact the copyright holder directly Right Turn etc. WW1 flags available in 22 sizes & fittings and Battalion. Wales and England the 38th Welsh Division and saw fierce fighting for the defence of the British Army us. That were emblazoned, and therefor is an English regiment, not.. Existence, as the 24th regiment was never called the SWB in its Content 1881 it was that. Of British Military flags there are:465 items tagged South Wales Borderers CAP BADGE `` ORIGINAL £11.99... We will never know for certain the exact number the Queen 's Colour was! Kingdom, and therefor is an English regiment, not Welsh either Welsh or English -... And where he was from, and where he enlisted give no real sound indication of nationality! '' ( 9cm ) at … our British Military flags there are:465 items tagged South Wales Borderers Regimental... Is a lot of detail on my motivations for creating this website in the.. From the 24th regiment was south wales borderers colours Welsh or English Anglo-Zulu War room in Library. Identified as the SWB no Welsh regiments or English regiments - the regiments were of course an Act of had!